Dentistry, Coaching, and Living Your Passion: A Conversation with David Moffet

David Moffet  00:00 

Don’t ever wait for the time to be absolutely right. Just begin with the tools at hand. And if they’re not the tools you need, the tools you’ll need will appear. The future 

 

Shawn Zajas  00:10 

of dentistry belongs to the innovators. Welcome to innovation in dentistry. I’m your host, Shawn Zajas. And I believe that the future of dentistry is going to be unbelievably great over the next decade in two decades. But the question isn’t that the question is, are you going to be part of what makes dentistry great? So I could not be more excited today to have the opportunity to interview Dr. David Moffat. And before I cue you up, let me just say thank you so much for letting me interview you 

 

David Moffet  00:52 

today. My pleasure. 

 

Shawn Zajas  00:58 

So, David, if I can I call you David on the show? Can I call you David on the show? 

 

David Moffet  01:05 

Yeah, sure. Sure. Yes. Absolutely. Fine. 

 

Shawn Zajas  01:09 

Okay, so So David, innovation can take on so many different forms, right? There’s clinical innovation, there’s technological innovation. But at the heart of it all, there’s some crazy person that says they have like either a belief set or mindset that says why not me? Like why can’t I step up? And pioneer positive change? And that’s exactly what you’ve done. Could you tell us a little bit about just even kind of your origin story of how you got into dentistry? 

 

David Moffet  01:40 

Well, it shone we’re going back to ancient history now. And yeah, I was just clever at school. And so people said, if you’re going to be clever school, you should be a doctor or a veterinarian or a dentist. And I thought, well, animals can’t tell me what’s wrong with them. So they’re out. So it was either doctor or dentist, I really wanted to be a doctor. And I missed the marks. And I got into dentistry, and I was so disappointed. And I said to my mom, I’m going back to school and redo the last year of school again to get into into medicine. And she goes well, with one day to go she says, if you didn’t want to be a dentist, why did you bother putting it down as a as a choice? I go. All right, good call, man. All right, let’s give dentistry a go. So I studied really hard in first year and second year dentistry. And after second year dentistry, I got my transfer to medicine. But all the guys that I went to school with, they were all out in regular jobs. None of them were at university, though it was a pretty working class sort of area that we lived in. And I just wanted to get a job and just get out and enjoy life. I got sick and tired of living on less than $50 a week back then. And I thought, I just want to finish three more years of dentistry and I got a job I can I can do what I want. Well, otherwise I’d go back. It’s five more years of med school, two more years of internship. I can’t put myself through that I’m done with learning. So I get myself back on my learning. I actually got a job. I was working 30 hours a week, five nights a week in a services club, doing concerts and shows serving drinks. And I guess that was left field stuff, as well. Yeah, my friends used to say I just went to uni during the day to for something to do during the day while I worked nights. So got out and got a job and worked hard. And after four years bought my own practice. And then that practice I stayed in for 28 years, 28 years in one place. When I left that practice, it was more than half my life in that one location. Well, no, I’ve never lived in a house that long. And, and so a lot of doctors said to me, they said you had the chance of being a doctor and you chose dentistry, good movement. And so Dentistry was really, I guess I was looking for a business outlet and Dentistry was that vehicle. And so I took my, my, my business brain into dentistry and I took and I learned customer service along the way as well. And I applied that to dentistry because I thought dentists are really, by and large and I hate being called a dentist, because dentistry is not what I am. It’s what I do. And so I wanted to feel that I could I could do something in dentistry with the skills that I learned while I was working, you know that that service club job and I was working in a in a news. Do you know what a news agency is Sean Durham didn’t even know what they places where people used to go. They buy newspapers. Do you ever heard of what a newspaper used to be? You know, since people go onto the internet, they buy a piece of paper and read it and then you know, the next day they’d be more news than nothing. So I worked in one of those and learn how to serve people and learn how to help people and so that customer service when I brought it into dentistry that was really a game changer for my practice and realizing that people didn’t really, you know, they don’t go to barbecues. They don’t go to dinner party. didn’t go well, you need to go to see my dentist, look at this great crown looking at the only 16 micron margins, you know, they don’t do that they tell them about how they make them feel and, and how they think they feel important and how they don’t feel ignored. And that’s what I want, you know, people will buy anything if they feel like they’re appreciated. And Dentistry was the same. And so I built a very successful dental practice dental office in a working class part of Sydney, where people were happy to pay a higher fee, because they were being treated like human beings, and they were really being cared for. And it was about a friendship. And by the way, I wasn’t, I’ve got to get my teeth done now and then come back and talk to whoever they’re talking to. So that’s what I did for 28 years in my in my own practice. And that was the really exciting thing. And then again, of course, be applying business. So that is, what did I do this year? What did I do last year? Is this year better than last year? Is this month better than last month? Is this visit for this patient better than their last visit when they came here? All those sorts of things, all those all those metrics that you have to keep monitoring? Because otherwise if you complacent, you just go on backwards. And that’s not right, either. 

 

Shawn Zajas  06:07 

Okay, so for those of us who don’t know the answer to it great. So for our listeners, in case you’re wondering why David does have such an amazing accent and voice you probably heard it there. He said, Sydney. So you, I guess are from and have practice in Sydney, Australia this entire time. That’s, that’s pretty, pretty cool. Now, so I’m curious, because I feel like most dentists, David, they, they get excited for the idea of dentistry. And when it comes to clinical, right, this is what you go to school for, you’re ready to start working with your hands. And then they show up in, you know, as an associate, or the end up getting into private practice and realizing, Oh, my God, there’s this entire business side that I have no idea what to do with. And it seems like that wasn’t the shock for you. It seems like you were already prepared for the business side of things. So going into dentistry, were you equally as excited about the clinical aspect of getting to use your hands? 

 

David Moffet  07:13 

No, not at all. In fact, as as a patient, I had no idea what Dentistry was about my first two restorations were done. When I was in final year dental school by somebody who was a year older than me, I’m working in a hospital where I was studying and just a couple of occlusal amount them so I’ve only had four teeth restored in my life, none extracted. There’s I really knew nothing about going to the dentist except that it smelled really weird. And and everybody wore white coats. And and that was about it. You know, we were very preventive oriented family. But my mother was also very pragmatic. She said Why should I pay for the dentist to clean everybody’s teeth, we clean our own teeth yet. And so the my mother being a, she was a she was a nurse and then she was a mother and then she went back to while I was at school, she went back to school herself and became a school teacher went to university and became a school teacher. So she was a school teacher. I think when I was in my third last year of high school, she actually started teaching school at a school nearby. And then my dad went back to school and got his high school graduation and then he went to university and got a Bachelor of Arts degree. So, you know, the whole whole family was at university at one time, but so I really didn’t know what Dentistry was. I learned dentistry at university. I got to university and they said do you use floss? I didn’t even know what floss was my dentist even till didn’t even tell us what that was. So there’s one guy said, Oh, that’s that stringy thing. And this is 1977 You know, do you you weren’t born that way is 

 

Shawn Zajas  08:54 

85 

 

David Moffet  08:57 

I’d already been a dentist, I’d almost started buying my own own practice. Then, in 1985. I’d already seen in NSX Live in Concert. So I’ll put some timeframes on. That’s the year I saw Bruce Springsteen come to Australia. So that’s a long time ago. But that as you can probably gather, if I like something, I get excited about it, and I get passionate about it. And and so the passion in when I bought my practice in January 1987 was to grow a business. Alright, because how much is this business doing now? How do I improve it? I need to fill my books, see more patients learn more skills and grow my customer base. And so that’s what I learned to do. And I learned that although Sydney is civilized, we have electricity and running water and sanitary things in our houses. We’re very civilized. it basically follows the US and anything that works in the US will work in Australia. So I started learning from non dental people in the US in sales and marketing. So Zig Ziglar, Jim Rohn, Tom Hopkins, Tony Robbins saw all those people live, loved seeing all those people live and learn a lot about business and how to treat people and, and, and metrics from those people. And then I applied to look at get into the real nuts and bolts of marketing. So Ed O’Keefe, who we’ve spoken about before, Dan Kennedy, and then meeting the people who follow those people and finding out who else they follow. And that’s really what just kept me growing my dental practice. And I’ve really ended up I started off with a, when I bought my practice, there was one person work there, apart from me, that was the girl who answered the phone, and mixed the all the staff and cleaned up. And she works. She lasted two weeks, because I wanted her to work. And she’s just used to sitting out the front reading magazines, while the old book is to do everything himself. Well, that didn’t last. So eventually, we grew it from one chair with one staff member to finally, it was two officers with seven chairs total, and probably about 15 or 20 staff across those. And we took it from $120,000 a year in 1987 to $3.4 million a year in 2011. So that was the growth and it just steady growth, you know, a couple of 100 300 400 each year. It didn’t. It didn’t you know, it wasn’t like overnight, 3 million, but it was just grow, build it build a whole building whole building whole and build and hold. And that’s, you know, that’s what businesses are based on that that solid foundation. 

 

Shawn Zajas  11:53 

So David, was there ever like a meeting you attended? Early on where you went to, you know, a show or an event where you were surrounded by other dentists? And you realized, wait a second, they’re not wired the way I am? And I’m viewed? I don’t know, maybe I’m a little bit of an anomaly. Because, again, the wiring is almost more engineer based. Conservative, not in the sense of managing risk, not necessarily entrepreneurial, not necessarily, oh, yeah, let me handle the complexity of business and the challenge of business and see the opportunity and get excited about that. Like was that apparent to you early on? Like when did it all of a sudden you realize, oh, not every dentist has the business wiring that I do? 

 

David Moffet  12:43 

Yeah, I don’t know, I worked my first year I worked in a satellite practice on my own. So the owner had gone overseas. And he just wanted me to finish the lease for the practice. And it was already I was just marking time I didn’t even have to I got to keep everything and just pay him a retainer, weekly retainer for using his facility. But it wasn’t, it wasn’t a part of Sydney, I liked I knew, and, and so I knew that I was going to leave there. And then I got a job not far from where I went to school and where my family was in even more working class area. But the dentist I worked for there had he lived in a world a well off part of of Sydney, and he sent his children to private school. And he the lesson I learned from him was that you don’t have to live where your offices, you know, he would drive 40 minutes there. And so he’s his home life was was distinct from where he derived his income. And he didn’t teach me anything, but I learned a lot from him. So I had to learn from osmosis as to what he was doing, and and the assets that he acquired and what he did. And but he it was funny, he identified in me that I wasn’t for his practice as a successor. He said, You Belong, he actually said you should go go down to Macquarie Street, which is like Harley Street or, or whatever, you know, but that wasn’t for me either. But he knew that I wasn’t going to mark my time until he was ready to retire that and that’s what happened. So after three years there, I said there was no opening for ownership. So I just went and bought my own office and from a chap who retired or he said he was going to retire he didn’t retire. He actually went and started working at near his home and took half the patients who were his friends to do that other office all of a sudden I bought an office with equipment but only a handful of patients so I had to build that up again work emergencies, all sorts of stuff, but I did the I just it was it was about survival. And and so I you asked me why One lesson, I used to go to the local study group they’d have for every year. And the lesson I learned was I’d hear dentists say, I see 100 new patients a month. And I’m thinking, Well, why is your practice not growing? You know what, it’s 100 coming in and 100 going out, I thought, that’s not right. You know, these people need to keep coming back the industry is something that people need to be find a dentist stay with a dentist until they die, or they move so far away that they, they can’t physically do it. And so that customer service customer retention process was in the back of my mind, but I was still acquiring skills, because dental degrees don’t give you enough clinical skills. So I started learning orthodontics, and I started learning a little bit of cosmetic work. And I also have started learning that, that the dentistry they taught me to do at university only lasts until a patient chooses on it. And we need to do other things that are going to last longer in the in the patient’s mouth. So we need to treat the whole mouth for their whole life. And so that’s what I then realized economics that back then, back then, and in those times, the standard life journey of people was that they got married in their early 20s. They had their children in their early 20s. And by the time they reach their early 40s, those children have gone. But these people still had to work till they were 65. So they had 20 years of income, no children and no debt because they’d already paid that off. So they had a lot of disposable income. And, but they weren’t just going to work till 65. And lift or 65 does stand a lift or 75 and 85. So they’re going to retire at 65. But their teeth needed to last them till they till their death. And so I thought well, silly, just getting their teeth the last year was 65 and then pull them out. And then they got false teeth, they they’d rather have teeth the last. So I said you’ve got to superannuated your teeth, you’ve got to make sure that when you retire, your teeth aren’t going to be an expense. So we’re going to fix them now. So they’re gonna last that, that that into the 70s and 80s. And they go, Oh, that’s fine. Let’s do that. So let’s replace these big amalgams with with porcelain crowns on their back teeth just so they could chew properly. And to me, that was logical, and they had the income to do it. Now, of course, people don’t get married till they’re 30 or 40. They don’t even choose a career. Some of them. Some of these kids grow up, they go to university, and I don’t like being a lawyer, I don’t like being a doctor, I’m gonna go back and do something else. To me, there was no, there was no going back, as I told you, this is your career, this is what you’ve done. Just go ahead and make it work. And that’s what I did is I just went out and made it work. 

 

Shawn Zajas  17:47 

I mean, it’s amazing, cuz I feel like you’re an individual that has such a yearning for for knowledge, you can tell. We’re gonna get to the fact that like you now coach dentists, but I feel like the best coaches are those that have themselves, been coached, been educated, invested in mentors, and had that just that desire to just learn as much as they can. So I see you have such a high IQ, you have such a high EQ, and it almost seems like your career just continued to cycle upwards. Was there ever a time where you got like a left hook that you weren’t expecting? Or there was ever a season where? I don’t know, maybe you didn’t? You didn’t want to get out of bed? Because things things were hard. And if there, there wasn’t, that’s totally fine. But I’m just curious, was there ever a low for you? Well, it’s funny, 

 

David Moffet  18:39 

you should say that, Shawn, because after five years of owning my practice, in 1996, I’ve started flatlining for four years, I grew for five years, and I flatlined for four years, and people said, ya know, right, David, your your practice is doing double what the average is doing you. You’re going good. But I had gaps in my books. And I just thought, There’s got to be something better. But I thought that maybe the answer was not to be doing dentistry, maybe I should just be entrepreneurial in another field. And so I thought I would sell my practice and try my hand at something else. I didn’t know what it was going to be. And so I put my house my practice on the market, but I sold it like I was trying to sell my house. So I was telling everybody how great my practice was, and, and how much better it was an all my competitors and all my competitors were, were doing things badly. And three of the people who looked at my practice said, you know, this is a really good practice, but they went and set up as my competition. They either bought bought another practice in town or they set up and I go, well, that plan is not working. In fact, one of them said he could coach me because he had a really good practice. He said, I’ll coach you. So I said, You’re right. You can be my coach. But I found out that he was working part time at one of my competitors while he was coaching me 900 meters down the road. So that didn’t work. We ended up in court with that. But I realized that it wasn’t. Coaching wasn’t bad. It was just I had chosen a bad coach. Fortunately for me, I chose another coach who I worked with for six and a half years. And in that six and a half years, we, we tripled the practice from $400,000 a year to $1.2 million a year. And I’ll and I really liked working with that coach, but then he, he just went in a vague direction he had done, he gathered all the clients together, which I thought was a great idea as a, this is back in 1992. I thought that he’s going to try and hang on now this is 2002 10 years on, he thought he’s going to try and sell this as a corporation. And he said, No, I said you had a buyer, didn’t you? And he goes, No, I knew I had a buyer. And I thought, well, that’s where that’s where the future was. So I anticipated that corporate corporate was going to come to dentistry, because I played golf with a doctor who told me about when he sold his medical practice to a corporate buyer. He said it was like he said, How long did I have to think about he’s had like a heartbeat, you know, the number they offered me was just ridiculous. And so I was I’d realized that I couldn’t sell my practice to another dentist, because it was already such a high turnover, the only person who could buy it was somebody who could do that for themselves. So but I thought corporate corporatization will come to dentistry. And it did. And so I was ready. So that was kind of not a left hook. But it was I built my practice out of the market. But then a new market appeared to buy in. And like in some cases, being the first data or a doctor was an advantage. And so it was one of the first eight or nine to sign a heads of agreement with the first corporate and, and when I sold to them in 2007. I stayed on with them for five years, and then the next owner for another two years. But in that five years that I stayed on with him, as grew the practice from 2.4 million to 3.4 million with the principles of what I was doing already, like people said, Are you got your money to put your feet up? No, no, I just keep turning up, keep doing what I’m doing because they had a very hands off approach. Because they figured, you know, you buy a racehorse, you just keep feeding it good food and let it run. You don’t say oh, you’re a racehorse. Now you got to, you know, while you’re not racing, you got to plow fields that because you’re a horse, that that’s what the second owner wanted to do. And so I left there in 2014. And that was about the time that arthritis was starting to affect my body. So I had my shoulder replaced in 2015 found out by 2017, that I had arthritis in my hands and or in my thumb joints. So that was just affecting householding thing. So I retired clinically in 2017. But I’d already started coaching, I know you’re going to ask me this question. So when did I want to be a coach? So there are 2012 I’d met a dentist who was a coach in America. Actually, I’d met him in 2002. Online. I met him in 2010 In real life, and I liked what he was doing. And I thought, yeah, that’s my next. That’s my next career. And so I was planning that and, and so I was already part time coaching while I’d started about this arthritis, but the arthritis is so bad in my head, it’s now that I now have to not I can’t even shake somebody’s hand because they just crushed it. And like even last night, I was just going. I’ve just got to, like COVID was good because nobody was shaking hands. But now everybody’s back shaking hands. I’m gonna, I’m gone. I can’t. I can’t. I’m given when I 

 

Shawn Zajas  23:37 

when I meet, you will just pound it. You know? 

 

David Moffet  23:41 

That’s it. But yeah, it’s just like that. But sadly, yeah, otherwise, it’s a wet fish. And that’s no good. So, so anyway, so so so yeah, I guess having a bad coach. The other thing was that at that time, in 1996, I said, I said to my wife, you know, we were not able to sell this practice, we’re gonna have to do something. And we’re gonna have to sell the house and take some of the equity because we’ve been putting equity in into the house, and not so much in the practice that they were going to put the equity back into the practice. And that’s a tough thing. You know, we had a one year old and a four year old at that time. So and my wife was a stay home mom. So it’s not like not like these kids today, where all of a sudden they they decide they’re going to have children and they have to sign their parents back up to be parents again, to be grandparents. That never happened in my life. But for my kids, my kids. My mother died while they were very young, so they were one grandparent down. And then my wife’s parents moved away and retired because they want a retirement lifestyle of their own. So they moved away from all their, their children and grandchildren. And they just got visitation. Holidays. So it was it was it was it was tough, but now kids is like I’ve got clients pregnant. I didn’t get them pregnant, I have a pregnant client. And 

 

Shawn Zajas  25:05 

that’s a great part. What does one lead with that in the marketing? 

 

David Moffet  25:11 

So that’s gonna be a sizzle reel. Yeah. But she, she’s planning. She said, Look, I know, I need to know when the coaching days are next year because I’ve got to organize citizen and baby season. And it’s really weird. I’m actually having to tell her. She said, I’d like I said, I said your husband, he doesn’t have breast as he said. So you need to spend time with the baby and get that bond, that physical bond is just sitting there with a baby in your arms. It’s not like or time to feed time to put it down. It’s it there’s this that time is so valuable. And it creates that lifetime bond between a child and his mother all the time. And it’s not a transactional relationship with your children. But that’s what I feel that we’re getting now with. Now I’m getting into into. 

 

Shawn Zajas  26:03 

Okay, so so. So David, I am I’m so curious, because I sense there’s such a resilience in you. But there’s also such a, like an excellence and optimism. And I don’t know, was it? Was it something that you had to learn? While you’re in the market while you’re doing things? Or was so much of this even just because of maybe the love the support? Even that came from your upbringing, because it sounds like your parents were really amazing people. And again, I also want to acknowledge like, I’m sorry, about, you know, losing your mom, it sounds like it was an earlier departure than, than maybe it could have been if she didn’t get to be a grandma long enough. But it seems like you had these amazing parents that were able to I don’t porn, do you a lot? Am I off on that? 

 

David Moffet  26:53 

Yeah, well, it’s interesting. I was eldest child, so I had to do a lot of things myself that my younger brother and sister got more support from my parents that I did. At my mother’s funeral, my mother died of ovarian cancer. So she she was diagnosed at 61. And she got three years after surgery, and then two years of fighting the thing to death sentence when you get it anyway. So she wasn’t she died at 66. But the at her funeral, everyone said how strict she was as a parent and, and but my dad was my dad always worked as an employed person he worked for it was in the Air Force when I was born. And then he had three sales jobs, long term sales jobs with as and then as a sales manager and then an operations manager. And so one was with an electronics company. The next one was with a company called Bowden’s chemical company from the US and they made it almost glue. And so he worked for them. And then then he then he started the New South Wales Office for Motorola when Motorola Canada, Australia in 1971. So but head office was in Melbourne, but because he was family based, he refused to be transferred to Melbourne. So people who work for him got transferred to Melbourne and became his boss. And so he retired at when my mum was 55, he decided to retire at the same time, she wasn’t expecting him to retire. She was on as a teacher, that was an optimal time for her to retire. But he was on this weird retirement package that was based on the average of his best three of his last five years and they were going to slip off. So he said, I’m going now and so they had, so that’ll let 11 years but of those 11 years, five years, my mom was fighting cancer. But I remember asking my dad, if he would go Garin to on a on a property loan. My boss that I was telling you about, said you should buy. It was a bad seller in this apartment block. And it had uninterrupted views of Sydney Harbour and the opera house there was like, it was it was cheapest chips was only $60,000 Back then it’s probably worth 2 million now. And so but my dad said Oh, no. He said don’t ask me to be guarantor. He said, I just can’t do that. Anyway, somehow I ended up getting the loan. I only had that property for a year because then I had to sell it to buy my practice and money to buy my practice. So it wasn’t something that I was able to keep but I would I always looked at risk as being part of what you had to do to to borrow and pay back as long as I could pay the bank keep the banks away. They risk 28 and a half percent interest rate on my business loan seven and a half percent on my home loan back in the 90s. It was just Just what you had to do. And and So it’s always using financial risk to, you know, to grow your assets. And that’s, again in the property market. That’s what you do your, your debts never go up, but the value of your property goes up. So as long as you’re going to hold that deadline, you grow your equity with time in real estate. So yeah, I’m still as we were talking before, I’m still looking at a lot of people saying, well, you should be retired now and just enjoying and just eating away at the Capitol now, I, I still like the feel of business. And I enjoy coaching for success. And I’ve really enjoyed that over the last 12 years. But I feel like being a business owner again, as well, and also doing some other things. Again, I just can’t imagine just getting up and saying, Okay, let me read the newspaper for the day until dinner’s ready. 

 

Shawn Zajas  30:56 

This, you need to be in motion, getting into do something you love. So tell me about it in your journey. As a dentist was there like a mindset either that you had to embrace or a mindset you had to shed in order for you to continue to grow? 

 

David Moffet  31:13 

I think I had to embrace I had to embrace that. A university education wasn’t going to allow me to grow the practice that I wanted to. So when I was looking to buy my my practice with a with a friend of mine, we looked at a practice and he said, he knew this practice and he said, this lady does a lot of orthodontic work, and I go, What the heck, you know, appliances and fixed orthodontics? I don’t know. How does she do that? That’s kind of like voodoo. She’s not trained in that. And then the two years in them owning my practice, I found that you could get that training. And so I started doing that training with skip through it from Texas used to come out to Australia. So that was the first non university education in orthodontics. Now they’re everywhere. Yeah, orthodontists are training dentists do orthodontic work. And that’s one of the myths of dentistry. And it’s not just in orthodontics in orthodontics here we were taught, you can identify a kid’s got crooked teeth, and then write a referral. That’s the orthodontic part of the degree. And I heard that in some dental schools in the US extractions are taught the same way, or this truth needs to come out here. Let me show you how to hold how I hold the forceps. Now you hold my hand and feel how I’ve got the grip on the forceps and feel how I’m squeezing those forceps and squeal. And that’s how you’re pulled out now write a referral if you signed recently, one of those, you know the the Oral Surgery departments get like that as well. Now the endodontist are struggling because of implants. A lot of dentists are just saying if we do root canal, this tooth is going to fail anyway. So why bother with a root canal? Just let’s get it out and put an implant in and be done with the the preservation you’re going to it’s going to be an implant anyway, maybe we’ll do it now. And so the endodontist are struggling that way. So I just learned that I needed to learn those things I did LBI because I thought these guys are doing full arch cases in short time, how do they how do they do it, there’s a process that I’ve not been taught. And although I didn’t become a every mouth was an LDI case, I did my share of them, you know, 10 or 12, over over a five year period that really changed people’s lives. And in fact, one lady came in and we we replaced some old veneers that she had done ages ago, she passed away within a year of me doing that and as to kind of like oh, she spent a lot of money with me. And but her daughter said she was so proud of her new smile for that year. You know that that again, that that’s that life changing thing that that you get to give people as a dentist so there is the art and the and the emotion of that. But also there’s the feeling of success of being able to cannot do I can do this for people of being some of the some of the ortho cases I did. You know, patients would say oh, you’re the magician like I couldn’t believe that you straighten it. So I just love that that that feeling of giving back but there’s there’s times where people are unrealistic about their their teeth as well. So that can be I know you asked me that question. Do I love dentistry or hate it? I say it’s complicated sometimes. Sometimes you don’t like some of the people because they have unrealistic expectations other times. Just the smallest thing makes a huge difference to them. And it may not be about the actual physical dentistry. It’s about some of my patients used to say that I was the only person who sent them birthday cards and Christmas cards. Wow. So yeah, that 

 

Shawn Zajas  35:00 

I was gonna say so. So the reason why I’m doing this podcast is because I know dentistry is going to be great in the next 10 years. But my whole contention is isn’t going to be because of the listener that’s hearing this show, or are they just gonna stay on the sideline and watch as pioneers, like you continue to lead and add value, because when it comes down to it, being a dentist, it’s more than enough. But between the lines of what you and I are saying, I know, there’s listeners that are like, man, there’s, there’s a passion I have, or there’s another desire I have in me to lead in this way or to serve. And, you know, some of the people I interview, they start software companies, or they start movements in this way, or they’re doing events, or they’re transforming lives, like you are through through coaching. But what happens with the people that are on the sideline is that there’s all those reasons why they don’t write, well, I don’t know if it’s the right time. Or I’m not really sure if I’m ready. Or what if I don’t really know enough. And I step out, and I look foolish, because ultimately, as a dentist, maybe they’re viewed in their community, and by their peers with with honor and with respect. But to start something new, you have to go back to that beginner’s mindset. And maybe you look kind of foolish trying something for the first time and it not working. Did you ever struggle with any of those types of mindsets or belief patterns that would keep you from moving forward? Because it seems like you you just kind of like fearlessly Jump, jump into things. But I’m guessing there’s still some aspects of humanity you share with those, that might be a little more timid. Is that true? Are you kind of just, that was never a struggle of yours? 

 

David Moffet  36:45 

Yeah, it’s one of the clients I’m working with at the moment, spoke to me two years ago. And then, and I knew that she needed what I was doing two years ago, but she only came on board two years later. And although she’s missed that opportunity of audio, she’s lost that time. She’s embraced what she needs to do, to grow a better practice. And that’s what she’s doing. She’s growing a bit of practice. She’s probably in it, too. She probably has learned a lesson in that two years that scarred her. But the lessons she’s learned since we’ve been coaching is that that’s just in the past, and the future is going to be always better if you’ve got the right person to hold your hand and help you with the decisions. And she and I like I always remind her during the calls is that I’m so impressed with the person she’s become. And she keeps saying, Well, I just figured, David Yeah, sometimes I agree with you just to shut you up. But it works out. It actually works out being what I should have done. And and that’s the theme, Shawn, even in coaching, there are still clients who sign up with you. And they say, you know, this isn’t working for me. You know what I feel like doing? I feel like just buying them a mirror and posting them and saying, here’s the answer to your problem. Have a look in the mirror, it’s you, you haven’t let go of your limiting beliefs. You haven’t trusted the process because every successful client that I have, that’s what they’ve done. It’s Yoda and Luke in The Empire Strikes Back. Now that was about the time you were born as well. So and maybe the year before, you’re probably the year before that as well. But do you know that you know the scene where Luke’s learning how to use the lightsaber? And Yoda says, Look, you just got to trust the force, you have to trust the force. And and there’s another great line in that movie as well. There is no try there is only do and not do. And those are key things. Nothing works if you don’t do it. Alright, nothing works if you don’t do it. Sure. There’s times where you do need to say no. And I’ve learned that lesson. You can’t just say yes to everything. Because you do make mistakes by saying yes. But ultimately in life you’ve got to make, you’ve got to make have more wins than losses. And so you’ve got to reduce your losses, but you can’t have a win if you haven’t tried. And Michael Jordan will say that he’s missed more baskets than anybody. But that’s the result of that is that he’s made more baskets and everybody as well. And it’s the Arnold Palmer said as well, as somebody said, there was a lucky shot. He said, You know what, the more I practice the luckier I get. And that’s what people have to realize the successful clients that I have, and I do a webinar twice a month. So I do a presentation twice a month. That is a webinar. But I do that and I play a couple of testimonial interviews that I did with clients and both, both of these clients said, You know what? I knew I needed to change I just didn’t know What but I knew that the change had to be with somebody who had done it before, and it helped others. And that’s what I bring to the table. I’ve done it. I know it works. Sometimes I wonder if it does work when people say, this isn’t working for me, but it’s them. That’s not working. It’s not me. And so again, it’s the 80/20 rule. I sort of explained last night at the speakers meeting, I went to one of the guys who manages speakers he said, you know, in the car market in the speaking market, he said is exactly the same in the car market. You’ve got a triangle, the bottom 80% Their key is, he said, then the top 1% is Bentley’s and other 90% in the middle, that’s the European cars and there’s our DS is Jags is whatever. He said, You can’t make a Kia become an Audi or a Jag. You know, people who buy that expect that to be a Kia, they don’t expect out of your Jag. And if you sold them an Audi or a Jaguar key apprises they’d be suspicious or something wrong as well. So coaching is like that you’re in that top 20% You’re looking for people who want change, and realize that what’s what what they’re doing is kind of not working as well as it should be. And when those people knock on your door and say, Look, I’m ready to embrace, change, it’s time to change. Another one of my clients, past clients. She said, she rang me and she said, I’m, I’m interested, but not quite ready. It’s interesting to me two years ago, she said, David, she said, It’s time to put my big girl pants on. And we we changed her practice and changed her mindset about being a practice owner from up a hobby while her husband was making the income to actually in fact, she became the chief breadwinner in her family because he got laid off for a couple of years because he was he flew airplanes for for airplanes in fly for two years. So So yeah, her her practice was she said, What do I have to do? And she said, I’ll, I’ll buy this other practice and, and merge it and take it over. I said, Hang on, you’re buying a really successful practice. You’re buying a racehorse, I said, don’t change the race horse, you just work in the corner and let him keep going his hardest and what he’s already been doing great relationships six or seven years on, they’re both doing wonders in this same practice now. And you know, he’s this, the dentists you bought the practice of, he’s 20 years older. And he’s loving working as, as the chief producer in her practice. So she she kind of just put her a partner ego and and let it happen. So anything’s possible in coaching. If you get the right coach and you identify with that coach, some people don’t identify with with how I operate. Others, you know, again, it’s not it’s like Tony Robbins, if you’re scared of fire, you’d never go and see Tony Robbins. But the thing, the thing you’ve done the firewall, haven’t ya, you know, 

 

Shawn Zajas  42:57 

I I’ve, I’ve learned more from Brendon Burchard, which is more of like one of his protegees than Tony specifically, I I’ve virtually learned from Tony, because he’s just, I mean, he’s been around. He’s like one of the fathers of inspiration. Love what he does, but I’ve actually never been to one of his in person events. Well, 

 

David Moffet  43:19 

I went to one of his one day event, and I thought I’ll buy this two day or three day thing. I didn’t know there was gonna be a fire walk when I sign up for him. I was like, What the heck. And it’s like, everybody’s doing it. So what you got to do it. But the thing about that, and I did this, you were born in 1990 94. The thing about it was that it’s the metaphor is that it’s not about the firewall, it’s about getting to the other side and how good you feel at and having achieved that and having done that, and and so you’re actually not even focused on the fire. And I remember saying to a friend of mine, I said, were they really cold there it was it was done in the dark. And she goes, David, she said they were cold. She said, Let me tell you this, when they went when she said when I was about to do it, they said we need more poles and they brought the coals over in a wheelbarrow and I was so hot that the bottom of the wheelbarrow just burn out hunger or really. So again, it’s it’s just about it’s about blocking out all the negatives or just I’m gonna get burnt, you know, and just what’s the process I have to do to get across there? What do I have to think? What do I have to say? How do I have to pace myself in my walk because they said if you run the scuffles, if you run out stick to your feet and you’ll burn your feet, you have to walk, walk quickly, don’t kick it up. Those are burns on the back of your cars, and you do it and what else was like five or six steps so only a short one wasn’t at least 30 Beta ones but still, if they were you know, zooming a little further the rest of that night, going to bed you got all of us features is available, but it’s done. It’s done tick the box done it, and and everything. Everything often in life is is this just another firewall am I am I don’t focus on the process, focus on the result you’re going to have. And the result is that success otherwise, remember, stadium, Australia where we did the Olympics 2000, you would have been about 15, then, and 

 

Shawn Zajas  45:28 

you’re good at math. 

 

David Moffet  45:31 

I signed up to do a flying fox across here for charity. And so go up and they climb across the harness stuff, and you’ll climb across this, you’ve probably done this climb across this barrier. And I thought maybe I don’t want to do this. And then I thought, you know, it’s probably gonna take me longer to climb back over the barrier, then just take that step and go out on the fly on Fox and just go across the other side. I did, and I’m not a heights guy. So again, I tell people, I’ve done a flying fox across the stadium. So they had to do that. No, you can’t do them every day. 

 

Shawn Zajas  46:08 

So, okay, so here’s, here’s one. So if I’m a PE, a dentist right now, and I’m thinking, Okay, how would I know? Either A, that I’m ready to be coached, or that I have the right mindset or attitude to be coached? What would you say to that? Well, 

 

David Moffet  46:26 

the first question is easy to answer. Am I ready to be coached, go to the bathroom? Look in the mirror, if there’s somebody looking back at you, that’s the person who’s ready to be coached. Everybody needs to coaches, everybody. And, and yeah, Tiger Woods has a coach Michael Jordan, as you look at the tennis players, when they play the the Grand Slams that they got millions of coaches in their boxes, you know, you got a mindset coach, a mental coach, or breathing coaches, sitting coach and all that, so that there’s coaches for everything that whatever, you can think you can be better at it, and you don’t know how. So do you need a coach? Do you need a business coach? Sure. What was the second part of the question? 

 

Shawn Zajas  47:10 

The second part is, like, is there some sort of tell when it comes to either attitude or mindset where I could kind of do like a self audit and go, Okay, either I have a block that’s going to prevent me from almost that sense of readiness, like, is there some tell that you know, I’m talking to someone, they are absolutely ready? Right now. Or, you know, what, this isn’t gonna work for them? Because I’m seeing these cautions? Like, what’s that tell 

 

David Moffet  47:38 

really good. And this thought came into my head earlier, when we were talking? Because you you kind of touched on this earlier. As with me, and that is like, Am I Am I ready to be coached and you know, is the time, right? And I’m not sure whether it was Napoleon Hill, or Clem stone. And they said this before I was born. So that’s a long time ago. But one of them said this, he said, Don’t ever wait for the time to be absolutely right. Just begin with the tools at hand. And if they’re not the tools you need, the tools you’ll need will appear. And that’s really what happens. The the act of beginning is the is is it’s the longest journey starts with the first step. And, you know, I told my story, I started with a coach, he was the wrong coach, I was counting cotton rolls, you know, that’s this is not the coaching I need, I need coaching in, in the philosophy of customer service in the business not in terms of, you know, can I do this with five tissues instead of four or five, four tissues instead of five and then I’m my expenses are less. It’s sometimes coaching someone’s someone’s coaching, you got to spit. Sometimes coaching will teach you that you’ve got to spend money to make more money as well, instead of being tight with your money and wondering why you’re you’re never getting to momentum. You know, sometimes you’ve got to spend the money. That’s what I did when I sold my house and put the money back into my practice. I bought a big yellow pages ad with the the equity of my house. And that got me a year ahead because I didn’t have to pay for the ad because I’ve paid for with my house. So everything I made from that ad was in profit, did I make more money from that yellow pages out the next year, I made a heck of a lot more so that that that money that I made from the first ad pay for the ad the next year, and so on and so on. And sometimes, and this is what it’s teaching me at the moment, same thing, you if you’re going to market, remember that you’re going to make a profit from the market and that profit you put it back in. You don’t spend it on operations because you’ve got the operations anyway. It’s it’s you spent it on keeping them the marketing going. And so, you know, today’s customers pay for next week’s customers. And that’s that’s what you got to remember with pitching. You know, once you get that mindset happening, it’s kind of like the world’s your oyster sometimes with coaching, as you would know, is that the problem that you start with is not the real problem. Sometimes you got to, like Shrek says peel back the layers of the onion, and then the problems back here, fix this problem, and then everything just gets better. But if you stay safe focusing on this one, you know, like people who have a rash, and they go, Oh, this rash I click on this cream. Well, it’s not getting better. What’s something they’re eating? That’s doing it? Yeah. If you feel I know what you’re eating. I’m now my skin’s really good. Yeah, I stopped eating raspberries. And that was really good. So again, it’s just getting to the getting to that getting to the root of it, but find somebody who you identify with or somebody who you feel is going to be your success. But again, don’t procrastinate. Yeah, my first coach was the first one that came along. The second coach was really the second one that came along. I was glad that he came along. And in fact, that meeting was really weird, because I just had laser eye surgery. So I blind in one eye, they said, Are you coming? I said, I can’t get there. They said, I said, You got anyone coming from my way. And they said, Well, we got this guy. I’ve got to go from Fairfield. And I said, what is that? so and so? And I yeah, he’s a mate of mine. Yeah, he can give me a ride in and out his practice in mind with two different practices. And I said, What are you going to do? He said, I think I’m going to do this. I said, Me too. We both grew, our practices, they both didn’t cut become the same sort of practice, they became better versions of themselves. So we were both happier with improvement. You know, not everybody who goes to the gym is going to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. They just kind of look like a better version of themselves, and they’ll both be happy. And that’s what you’ve got to realize in coaching. You just, you don’t want somebody’s going to turn you into a McDonald’s practice. It’s you just want to be a better version of your own practice. 

 

Shawn Zajas  51:51 

Okay, okay, so I’m sold. I’m listening. And I’m like, Okay, where do I go? Where do you want my eyeballs to go so people can learn how they can connect and how they can take that next step with you? 

 

David Moffet  52:01 

Well, the easiest thing is just find me on social. So I’m on LinkedIn, I’m on Facebook. I’m on Twitter, but I don’t know how to do it. But LinkedIn and Facebook, I’m all over that. David Moffet, Mo W F E T. Remember that there are six ways to spell Moffitt and E T is the rarest. And I was just say it’s et phone home. All right, just phone home at or from the French ma fe. It works either way. Easy to find a seat. My name is even printed there on there. Just google me. David Moffet dental coach, you’ll find me on LinkedIn. Easy enough. David at the elbow, my business is the ultimate patient experience. That’s a lot of typing. So it’s David at the up.com. But I’m easily findable. You’re gonna put it in the chat after this anyway, so Yeah, they’ll find me. And we just have a conversation, a virtual cup of coffee. I say if we can find out over over 20 minutes, but my 20 minutes usually goes for about an hour and you say it hasn’t got to end. And as I do well, we just chat as sadly we’re going to have to end this shortly too short, but I could talk forever. Heaven helped me when I start my own podcast. Gosh. Think I’m gonna have to leave with the seven questions only. 

 

Shawn Zajas  53:24 

Okay, so do you know what the closing question is? Are you ready for it? 

 

David Moffet  53:28 

I’m ready for it. But I don’t know what it is. 

 

Shawn Zajas  53:31 

Okay, so, David, if today’s walking down the street, and you see 18 year old David in the distance, and you only have one moment to communicate one sentiment to him. What do you share? 

 

David Moffet  53:46 

Oh, wow. This is not a short answer for me. Because 

 

Shawn Zajas 53:54 

he’s walking by you’re gonna miss it. There’s just 

 

David Moffet  53:56 

because my career passion when I was at school was that I wanted to be a radio announcer you know, like, like, Wolfman Jack, you know, played music and just, you know, Wolfman Jack is? No, 

 

Shawn Zajas  54:12 

I do not 

 

David Moffet  54:13 

even that like it. He’s like, the celebrity DJ from way back. But the radio is different now. But I did some community radio for about 10 years. I finished it up. About 2012 to 2020. Yeah, I did. Some community radio. I quite enjoyed that. Sometimes you think you’re just talking to yourself, but that that was my passion was was radio, I don’t think I would have made a living. I wouldn’t have I wouldn’t have had the lifestyle that I have from dentistry. So again, that was a door. And that was the school’s adviser who said, what do you do and therefore you’re smarter than that. But sometimes, sometimes you just got to end up where you end up. Oh, I’m so good. The other thing that I did after I became a dentist I, I applied for law school and got into law school. Thank goodness, I never took that up. We got enough lawyers in our family now and and they can be nasty people. I think you’ve just got to follow your passion, but with reason you’ve got to have, you know, what, where is this passion going to take me if it’s going to take you to a life of, of poverty and struggle? There’s more to life than doing that. I think, you know, when I graduated, I was living off credit cards for years until I got a really good job. And, and, and learn to manage my debt. But I think ultimately, the beauty of dentistry if if I if I can kind of answer my own question, but with what you’re saying, Well, what’s a young dentists gonna think, you know, the beauty of owning a dental practice is that you can determine where you’re going to live, where you’re going to send your children to school, where you’re going to retire to when you’re going to retire to, if you manage that dental practice properly. Alright, now, half the dentists out there don’t do that. And they hate dentistry, they get their get a they get, they’ve got a student debt, they’ve got a practice debt, then they’ve got a wife that that got credit card debt, and live some misery for them. But if you manage it, right, you can really create the lifestyle of your dreams, you can live comfortably, you can set your children up for life, and you can enjoy the journey along the way, not just up being a dentist. And that’s one of the things that I did you know, after, after selling my practice, in 2007, but still working on it, I did a lot of travel, you know, there’s only a couple of places that I missed out on when COVID started, and I hope I’ll get to them. But I pretty well ticked off 95% of the things that I wanted to do. I’ve been I think I’ve been to New York more than a dozen times, I’ve also been at Cleveland more than a dozen times. Regrettably, mistake by the lake. That’s what others I don’t, I’ve never said that. Please don’t quote me. But I love Cleveland, I’ve seen the world’s largest rubber stamp, I’ve been to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And I got three or four other reasons to go there. And it’s it’s quite a nice place but but the I see Times Square and I see New Yorker in movies and I go are you used to used to love going to new york stay in a different place a different hotel every time just to get a different part of Manhattan and just use different transport, you know, you might be 300 meters one way and just use a completely different line to go up and down Manhattan. It’s just just how it is. But But I couldn’t have done that. If I hadn’t been a dentist. I’ve played the greatest golf course in the world four times, which is in Pine Valley, Pine Valley, and Clementine, New Jersey. And, and not many people know about it. And not many people ever get onto it. And I’ve played it four times. And I could probably go back and play it again. It’s not inexpensive to play. But is it worth it? Yeah, it is. And that’s sometimes what coaching is to. It’s not inexpensive to be coached properly. But the return on your investment is huge. And trying to do things on your own is a waste of your time and very costly. Because you’re really sometimes just spinning your wheels, trying to work things out for yourself. When you’re really the answers are there. You just got to find somebody to show you the way and hold your hand and, and guide you. So that’s what I’d say even in life. If you’re not going to be a dentist, find what you want to do find people who can help you get there quicker, keep you in your lane, without the distraction to get the result because again, back to the firewall, the end result is worth the journey. 

 

Shawn Zajas  58:54 

Amen. Okay. So I love the gratitude that you just expressed. For dentistry. Like it’s so clear to me, David, that you you love dentistry. And it has been so easy on this podcast to just highlight you and honor you as an innovator. As someone that’s pioneering positive change. I love what you’re doing with the ultimate patient experience and the impact you’re making in dentists life through your coaching. Seriously, thank you so much for letting me interview you today. 

 

David Moffet  59:25 

Well, Shawn, thank you very much. And I mentioned this in our leaders that I’m working on this project of trying to create a safe community globally, for dentists to be able to identify those points in their timeline where they have these serious questions. When should I buy a house? When should I buy an office? When should I have a family? When should I move to an area that that that is a nice place to live? When should I retire? And so I’m trying to form that I’m in the process of forming that community now. And also helping dentists to avoid that hassle with you know, what’s the best print Dubai, what’s the best camera Dubai? We’re trying to shortcut that so that they can say, you know, in this community, I just have to ask the question and the answer is there. I don’t have to do all that research myself. Because sometimes you can you. Remember I told you in this story about the friend who came with me to look at that practice where the orthodontics was, he was looking to hire practice at the same time. In fact, he came to my office, my practice my practice after I bought my practice, and, and I’d been there nine months, and he said, I’m thinking of buying myself himself an apartment. Well, fast forward two months, and I bought myself an apartment, because I was renting I thought, yeah, I could probably, anyway, that was the start of the 1987 real estate boom, it was just after the 87 stock market crash and real estate when the apartment I bought, I sold it a year later for a 5% profit 85%. And he my friend never bought, he was a procrastinator he’d never bought, he’d never ever bought, he never actually, I don’t think he ever even owned his own practice. He never actually even stayed in a practice long enough to see whether his work lasted. He used to work part time jobs, and every year he changed one. So it really only saw his work for two years. Sadly, that was in his mindset, I don’t know, what was the difference between him and me mentally on that, I don’t know what, you know, I’ve found that, you know, owning an office and being in that one office for 28 years, you got to see the generations, you got to see that, that your patients have children, and some of them have children. And, and the everybody became your family, and that, again, back to the community and the relationships. I really enjoyed that. And even though I moved away from that, from living in that community, it was still, you know, it was it was it was the town where I went to school, or where we used to go for our big shop. And, and, and was a central location. And, and, and I miss the people say, do you miss the practice of dentistry, sometimes I don’t miss all the doing of stuff. But I do miss the people. And some of them are still like, since I left their 2014, that’s nine years ago, a lot of them still on my social media, and communicate. You know, when I tell them things I’m doing with my coaching they are Yeah, that’s what you used to do for us. You know, that’s why we keep coming to you. So I love I just love that, that that connection with the people side of things, as I’m enjoying the podcasting, and I’m enjoying helping set up this community, this online community for dentists as well. So even if you’re not interested in my coaching, and they want you to go, Oh, what’s that community reach out to me because we’re forming that and mid November. That’s the launch of that’s going to be something really huge. 

 

Shawn Zajas  1:02:57 

Well, I’m super excited about that community. And best of luck on the podcast, you’re gonna be starting, again, know that I’m 100%. In Your Corner, you need anything. And then also I thought of one quote that I feel like is a it’s like a good bow tie to this episode. And I think it was Wayne Gretzky following what you were saying about Michael Jordan. I think he said, You what, you always miss the shot like that you never take 

 

David Moffet  1:03:22 

it, was it Gretzky or with Jordan, but Gretzky, 

 

Shawn Zajas  1:03:24 

I don’t know, it was, it was one of them. And that’s the whole point. Like if someone’s on the cusp, right now of doing something like I love what you said, about in taking that step. I don’t wanna say it’s almost like the provision or the doors unlock, or what’s needed shows up. And yet, it almost takes a little bit of faith to just take that first step. And that’s my encouragement to the listeners right now. From everything you’ve said, David, just take that step. 

 

David Moffet  1:03:51 

It might have been Gretzky, who said that I like this one of Gretzky’s even better and that way is that he never He said, I don’t play to where the puck is, I played where the puck is going to be. And, and, and that’s what you got to do in business. Sometimes you gotta say, this is where I have to be. This is where things are heading, and I’ve got to be there at that intersection. No point in me going here. And when I get there, the past has gone. And really important. Now, hockey, ice hockey is a really hard concept for Australians because we don’t play it that much. 

 

Shawn Zajas  1:04:26 

And you play underwater hockey or is that just New Zealand we 

 

David Moffet  1:04:29 

play? Yeah, whether that’s water polo. We played grass hockey, but ice hockey. The description I like about that is I went to what was it? I went to a fight and a game broke out. Like do they use a puck? Yeah, they just go there to fight and 

 

Shawn Zajas  1:04:51 

David, it has been an honor. We’ll have to do this again. But 

 

David Moffet  1:04:55 

I’ll have you on my podcast. And and that’s certainly Shawn. Thank you. So much I’ve really enjoyed this. It’s been been a real pleasure and an honor to be part of your podcast. And I wish you success with your, your business as well. And I’m looking forward to having you your, your products on our community as well. I think that’s going to be a win for everybody involved for for our community and for you and for for us organizing that discount that’s going to be big. So appreciate the time, my friend has been. It’s been great and looking forward to when I get to. There’s plenty of golf courses in Arizona, so I’ve got to get out of there and buy some more of those. 

 

1:05:41 

That sounds like a plan. Thank you so much, David. Thanks, Sean. 

 

Shawn Zajas  1:05:45 

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